I don't know how much trouble I may get into for this post, well ---trouble may not be the word but I am fairly confident I will get some good talkin' toos. I do not mind admitting that I am a fan of Rob Bell, you know from Mars' Hill. I love the way he communicates, seeming to be thinking through his thoughts yet delivering them at the same time. A friend and fellow blogger - Donna has much of the same gift. Right now every other post of hers (this is an exaggeration that comes from a bit of jealousy) is about her upcoming move to Europe yet the words are very provoking and can really make one think. Thus is how it is with me and Rob.
Our church family is in the process of updating its bylaws. I have been in several congregations that have needed to tackle this issue. Basically bringing our polity and process up-to-date with operations. At the same time we will get to tackle, discuss, discern and probably discover spiritual truths that tend to be more important to our day-to-day lives now more so than in 1984. We are not a congregation of heavy drinking-bar hopping, night-life people but I am sure that we will have a word or two on the usage and appropriate levels of alcohol. Another topic will be women and how God intended their role in the church to be as the Bible states. (This is where Rob comes in for me.) Now, I am not about to debate the qualifications of leadership within the church specifically related to gender roles on this blog. It would neither be appropriate nor redemptive. I do however want to quote from Rob Bell's "Velvet Elvis" and from page 46 "In order to live it out and not just talk about it, someone somewhere has to make decisions about this verse. Someone has to decide what it actually looks like to put flesh and blood on this command. And that's because the Bible is open-ended. It has be be interpreted. And if it isn't interpreted, then it can't be put into action. So if we are serious about following God, then we have to interpret the Bible. It is not possible to simple do what the Bible says. We must first make decisions about what it means at this time, in this place, for these people."
Now that makes me think and in my slightly pious thoughts-should make you think. Well, enough of that! Thoughts and------please be gentle!
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Rob Bell just had Phyllis Tickle at his church. She presented universalism, that God is a woman, expounded on the eucharist (eating the flesh and blood of Jesus) ..it was dreadful. I can't imagine the disciples endorsing this heresy but rather as Paul said, "Let them be accursed." That is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ! Rob's hermeneutics is scary. He has a wrong view of the Gospel, Heaven and Hell, and the state of mankind. THese are not trivial matters! We as believers are to contend for the Gospel that ONCE FOR ALL was entrusted to us. Paul warned of teachers that would emerge-from among ourselves-and speak perverse things. He is a smooth talker and appeals to the young group, but we MUST be wise and discerning. Let Scripture interpret Scripture! We have the whole counsel of God and the Holy Spirit (test the spirits!) to guide us. We don't need false teachers trying to lead us away from our pure devotion to Christ. God will lead us into all truth through His Word. Here's a link to a good critique of Velvet Elvis: http://www.sohmer.net/Velvet_Elvis.pdf
"Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principals of the world, and not according to Christ. Colossians 2: 8
After coming across your blog, I was disturbed by the this Rob Bell quote.
It's typical of his denial of the Truth of God's word. If the interpretation of the text changes over time, then at one point it was not true. If at on point in time the Bible was not true, then God at on point was a liar. These are very serious concerns.
If my pastor was a fan of Rob Bell, it would cause me great distress because it shows one who lacks discernment, has no concern for biblical truth and hods the words of a sinful man to be of higher value then that of inspired, God Breathed scripture.
You were right. You did receive a "good talking to." Not a word concerning what your post was actually about. Just three negative attacks because you mentioned Bell's name.
Tim Dahl
Tike, comments were invited and Rob Bell was quoted. I dont' see how concerns of the teaching of Rob Bell would not be acceptable , since Bell was quoted and the writer said he was a fan of his and welcomed comments.
Jude, " to those who are called, sanctified", tells us to "contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all deliverd to the saints. For certain men have crept in unnoticed...ungodly men ..."
Paul urged Timothy "I urged that you may charge that they teach no other doctrine, nor give heed to fables"...
and "the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine..and will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you be watchful!"
Now, Rob Bell has had a woman teaching in his pulpit that God is a woman, and she is a universalist. Rob Bell has questioned the virgin birth , has said that the concept of God (Trinity) was comparable to a "spring" that "stretches" and was not understood but "added later" , several hundred years after Jesus' resurrection. Well we can know that Old Testament writers understood that God was Spirit from the beginning (Genesis) and that He would crush Satan's head (Genesis), and that Messiah would come (Old Testament prophets and the Law)...Abraham knew Christ and was glad, considering His reproaches more than the treasures of Egypt. David understood it "The LORD said to my Lord"..
Church councils did not discover the Trinity -they formulated the truth already revealed in Scripture and defended it. Rob Bell leads people astray in suggesting that someone might dig up Jesus' father named Larry and causes doubt for the reader in questioning the virgin birth. "Does the whole thing fall apart?" (Did God really say?...)
My concern is that churches who use Rob Bell's teaching will be accountable for those who give an account for those souls under their own shepherding.(Hebrews 13:17 : "Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing so you will save both yourself and those who hear you." 1 Tim. 4: 16 "O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge-by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith." 1 Tim. 6: 20
For a critique of Rob Bell, please see: http://www.sohmer.net/Velvet_Elvis.pdf
AS Paul Washer (www.heartcrymissionary.com) says, "Thou shalt not twist Scripture, lest you be like Satan." Bell twists and contorts and causes doubts as to the authority of Scripture. What does Paul say to do w/ teachers like that? "Run!!!"
In the Apostle John’s first letter to young Christians, he wrote this stern warning, “Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father” (1 John 2:23). Therefore, should someone deny the Son, or teach a different Jesus, then that person does not have the Father. This is why it is essential that a person believe in the biblical Triune God: Father, Son, Spirit; three distinct beings, yet one God. If a man or woman denies this Jesus, he or she shows that he or she never had the Father to begin with.
In John’s second letter, he wrote, “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God” (2 John 9). This verse supports 1 John 2:23 above. Again, if someone has a wrong view of “the doctrine of Christ” then that person is guilty of a heretical error.
Therefore, errors about the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and the like, are heretical errors.
http://www.sohmer.net/Velvet_Elvis.pdf
Throughout Velvet Elvis, Rob articulates a “gospel” much different that the Biblical one. Rob teaches the following:
Salvation is for everyone, regardless of their religion, with no repentance or even belief required!
Jesus' death covers everybody, even if they're not Christians.
The gospel is good news, especially for non-Christians.
Salvation is equivalent to living the right way, rather than being right with God.
Oh My! - Who would have thunk this!?!
Quoting Bell:
"In order to live it out and not just talk about it, someone somewhere has to make decisions about this verse. Someone has to decide what it actually looks like to put flesh and blood on this command. And that's because the Bible is open-ended. It has be be interpreted. And if it isn't interpreted, then it can't be put into action. So if we are serious about following God, then we have to interpret the Bible. It is not possible to simple do what the Bible says. We must first make decisions about what it means at this time, in this place, for these people."
He is saying the Bible is "open-ended." That isn't right at all. It's not up for any old interpretation. It's not a 20th century painting where the painter says, "Hey, I painted it, now you determine what it means by what YOU think it means." No, God is perfect and holy and doesn't make mistakes. So, if we are dealing with a God like that, He means what He says.
For instance when Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness." ?(Matthew 7:21-23)
... can we say, "the Bible is open-ended" so it can mean whatever we THINK it means? No. Jesus meant there are many who will die in their sins who think they are Christians. They did all kinds of works in His name and were deceived. No one is going to stand before Jesus Christ and say, "well, ummm, I interpreted that differently, so you have to take me to Heaven and not to the Lake of Fire!"
When interpreting the Bible, should we start with a holy God's ideas or sinful man's ideas?
Going down to the bottom of his quote, he said, We must first make decisions about what it means at this time, in this place, for these people."
So, if we determine that the Law of God (as read in Exodus 20) was for the Israelites way back when, is it then not for you right now? God has not changed. His Law remains.
How about if we look at the cross 2,000 years ago. Is that no longer relavant because it's not in "our day?"
Would love some explanation to what Bell means by "We must first make decisions about what it means at this time, in this place, for these people."
Would you mind interpreting Bell's statement for us?
Tamara Slack
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